Lake trout over supply and Salmon shortage!

Share info on fishing Champlain.
digitroll (ron)
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Lake trout over supply and Salmon shortage!

Post by digitroll (ron) »

Is it time to stop stocking Lake Trout? With many age classes that are naturally reproducing and the over abundance of lakers under 5 lbs maybe it’s time to look at this option? I am concerned about our bait fish population seems to be in crash mode as well with all those lakers feeding on them! This was the goal initially get them reproducing in numbers that would end stocking years ago.

Time for a petition to our fish and wildlife folks?
Last edited by digitroll (ron) on Sun Jul 10, 2022 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wallyandre (Andre)
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Re: Lake trout stocking

Post by Wallyandre (Andre) »

And start raising the numbers for Salmon!
riverrunner
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Re: Lake trout stocking

Post by riverrunner »

It's been cut in half. NY is no longer stocking lakers
digitroll (ron)
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Re: Lake trout stocking

Post by digitroll (ron) »

I could be wrong but I thought NY was dropping their stocking starting this year 25,000 and Vt was still stocking 50,000. More salmon would be wonderful! Lakers live 50 years or more compounding our population dilemma. Where salmon live 4 years mostly.
ATLSALMON
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Re: Lake trout stocking

Post by ATLSALMON »

Vermont & New York needs to learn how to put more salmon in our lakes ask Roger from Lake Superior State how it is done he had the best stocking program in the world
dry net
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Re: Lake trout stocking

Post by dry net »

Have to be careful here. Yes the lake seems to be choked with 6lbers but the fishing pressure on them is incredible be it summer or winter. Seems like you see far more jig boats then trollers these days. It would be nice to see an increase in salmon and brown stocking. Has there been a bait survey done?
Mike8484
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Re: Lake trout stocking

Post by Mike8484 »

So I asked a question along these lines at the state of the lake meeting but can't remember the answer. What are some of the challenges with stocking salmon that aren't there with lakers? While I can understand the stock more salmon argument stock less lakers argument. There has to be a reason why salmon aren't stocked in the same numbers. Is the challenge in the rearing process? Are salmon just more expensive? This argument has to be more nuanced than just more salmon less lake trout.
ATLSALMON
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Re: Lake trout stocking

Post by ATLSALMON »

I am not a expert on the subject but I would think it is cheaper to raise the salmon as they grow faster then lake trout
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Reelax
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Re: Lake trout stocking

Post by Reelax »

Ron I am with you. IMHO if they never stocked another laker in Champlain and put them in lakes that need them we would be better off. Replace them with salmon and brown trout that are much more tasty and sporty. Champlain is seriously lacking in salmon and brown currently, compared from past years. As a result I no longer fish every week:(


Would be good move for the fishery all around to stop
Stocking all lakers in Champlain… I really miss the 10-15 salmon we used to catch over 4 lbs every spring..

Hope it gets better soon, cause salt water looks better every day right now:(



Matt
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digitroll (ron)
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Re: Lake trout stocking

Post by digitroll (ron) »

The amount of Lake trout under 5 lbs is off the charts the last 3 years! The lack of bait seen from Split Rock to the bridge is even more alarming this year. Could the lake trout be displacing our salmon? We can't be putting 50,000 Lake trout a year into a lake that is over flowing with lake trout at the moment. It's reached a tipping point this year with our lack of bait seen from many out there fishing. The fish have been very skinny as well. Overfishing Lake trout at this time won't even put a small dent in the current population.

I agree Matt. Lake Ontario is looking pretty good as well as salt water. Some of my friends from Canada are already looking at other waters. It's tough when you fish 5-8 hours to catch one 17-18" salmon. With great natural reproduction with many generations of Lake trout successfully spawning and reaching catchable size it's time to turn off the hatchery lake trout spigot.

The hope is it's time to change the course and take action. Hopefully we can get the stocking right and change this trend.
bagman
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Re: Lake trout stocking

Post by bagman »

I believe LT are an important component in the fishery. That being said the lake is completely over run with them. Enough already. The salmon fishery has been in a downward spiral for years with this year hitting bottom. I do not believe stocking more salmon, browns etc. will solve the problem. Salmon stocking is almost a 4 to 1 ratio over lake trout. The question to ask is what is happening to salmon after the stockings. Grand Isle is growing some of the healthiest fish on the planet but again what happens after they are stocked. Smolt survival is horrible. The brown trout program is a bust. Over 30,000 a year in Malletts and IS for a long time with no results. When was the last time you caught one? The state and F&W seem to be ok with this. WHY ? Business as usual. There hasn't been a bait assessment trawl in years. Ontario is assessed every year and stocking adjustments are made based on baitfish numbers. No idea what the forage base is on champlain. You need several year classes of alewives. If you have a bad year in there you will probably have a crash. 7 inch smolts need small bait to survive they are not going to eat 6 inch alewives. Every predator on the lake is waiting to eat these stockers, Cormorants are out of control with the feds doing nothing to control them, I believe predators such as pike, walleye, and yes lake trout are feasting on the smolts .
This fishery needs some major adjustments. NY discontinued brown trout stocking in lake erie. Why? because it wasn't working. What was working? Steelhead. They now have a world class fishery in Erie and tribs. We need to look at whats working . Change is good. Business as usual is not good. Lets find out what is happening to these smolts and adjust if we can. I believe an organization of fisherman from this forum should form to put pressure , real pressure on the state and feds to make changes. Sorry about the long rant here but actually I could go on a lot longer. I won't for now. More to come
ATLSALMON
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Re: Lake trout stocking

Post by ATLSALMON »

You are right nothing gets done til pressure is put on these people to make a change
dry net
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Re: Lake trout stocking

Post by dry net »

I guess my point was that if the trout jiggers have no no trout to catch they may focus on the salmon putting that much more pressure on them. I've only fished the lake going on my 6th year and have noticed a down turn in size and numbers like you guys are saying. On a positive note, we have been catching more shakers then normal for us this year. Hopefully they will survive to maturity. Good luck !!!!
digitroll (ron)
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Re: Lake trout stocking

Post by digitroll (ron) »

Some great points Bagman! And equal story is the demise of our salmon. Your correct about more salmon raised and stocked will not solve this issue when it seems 90% of the salmon disappear after stocking a short time after. About the time the Fish Hook fleas arrived 5-6 years ago we did see a downward spiral of our smaller stocked salmon. Coincidence? I don't know. Yet we saw smaller fish in the Inland Sea (Keelers in April) survive there until the last few years those numbers dwindled and this year nearly nothing in April early May. The Fish Hook Fleas are now in Outer Bay as of last week. First time I have seen them there. There is a few more steelhead showing up this season and some nice ones down south. The lamprey hits are down on the few mature fish we catch. The brown trout mystery is the most compelling. Why stock these fish when none are caught? Every area of the lake has been affected by a lack of salmon this season. The excuse of "oh you have to find them" no longer applies. Our bait seems to have crashed down south with a blank screen from the Crown point bridge to Split Rock. We saw a few small pods of bait in Wagga this year with 3 visits this year in April early May. That bay was empty of salmon and bait for weeks. Here is my fin clip data record for this year to date: (Yellow shading I was a visitor on others boats) New fisherman text me from time to time asking where to start fishing? I don't have an answer based on my results and others. It seems our trips are mostly fishing for a few releases and one netted fish this season. ie. a boat ride! We need some drastic changes on our stocking strategy.

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bagman
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Re: Lake trout over supply and Salmon shortage!

Post by bagman »

There is no assessment of bait in the lake. How can you stock fish not knowing what the lake can support. Lake trout are prolific spawners and voracious eaters. Sebago in Maine is experiencing salmon decline. Maine is now allowing no limits on how many lakers can be harvested uo to 26 inches on Sebago. Lake trout were illegally introduced to Yellowstone lake and totally decimated the native cutthroat trout. Since 1994 over 3.4 million lakers have been removed from Yellowstone to try and protect the cutthroat. For years we,ve had a put and take laker fishery here on LC but now with successful reproduction its time to put the brakes on> Its unnatural numbers and I believe seriously impacting bait numbers. Again I say no one is doing anything to assess bait stocks. Its time to have the people who get paid to manage the lake to step up and provide some explanations as to what is going on. Business as usual is not working
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