Lakers mortality

[Wallyandre (Andre)]

An excellent article on the C&R for the lakers

Taux de survie truite grise.jpg (143.44 KiB) Viewed 1879 times

[Bulldogbish]

A good read but it seems tough to get accurate %'s based on re-catching fish in such a large body. I hope the numbers listed are higher than actual. Nevertheless, a good discussion topic and great effort!

I don't love watching lakers trying to swim away with a bloated stomach. We saw a couple dead floaters fishing this weekend in the Quabbin Res. We also have to contend with the eagles grabbing struggling fish. But when they made it down, i always assumed they were OK so this is something new to think about.

[fishinghard]

Every time i go to the Quabbin I always see a lot of floaters too and I wonder why even though i mark a ton of fish ... also I would assume that these numbers would be off for the same reason that pressured water are harder to catch fish even though there are fish there... I believe fish are smart and can learn to not go for lures and this would throw off these researchers finding at least a bit.

[Captain Paul]

ANDRE, THIS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING I WOULD RATHER SEE GUYS GO OUT GET THERE 3 FISH LIMIT AND KEEP THEM AND THEN FISH SOMETHING ELSE. THAN GO OUT AND RELEASE 30 FISH AND NOT KEEP ANY THE LIMIT DOES NO GOOD IF YOU CATCH 30 FISH AND KILL 40 PERCENT OF THEM THATS 12 FISH WHEN YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED 3 THATS 4 TIME THE DAILY LIMIT. I SUSPECT DUE TO POOR HANDLING BY MANY ANGLERS THAT THE NUMBERS ARE MUCH HIGHER THAN 40 PERCENT. THE STATE HAS PUT OUT PROPER HANDLE GUIDELINES THAT CLEARLY STATE GRASP THE TAIL CRADLE THE BELLY DO NOT HOLD FISH VERTICALY AND RELEASE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. BUT I CONTINUALLY SEE FACE BOOK POST EVERYDAY OF PEOPLE WITH THERE HANDS IN THE GILLS HOLDING THEM STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN OR HANGING OFF A BOGA GRIP AND THEN HAVE THE BALLS TO SAY THEY RELEASED THEM TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY WHEN THEY SHOULD SAY RELEASED THEM TO DIE IN A FEW HOURS. I HAVE FISH IN THE DERBY EVRY YEAR THAT LIVE GREAT IN THE COOLER WITH ICE WATER BUT WE NEVER TOUCH THE GILL AREA AND WE NEVER TRY TO WEIGH THEM YEARS AGO WE WOULD TRY TO WEIGH THEM ON A BOGA OR HANGING SCALE THEY WOULD ALWAYS DIE WITHIN AN HOUR WE STOPPED THAT PRATICE MANY YEARS AGO. WE HAVE A GREAT FISHERY HERE ON LAKE CHAMPLAIN BUT IF PEOPLE DONT START HANDLING FISH BETTER WE WIL HAVE NOTHING IN THE FUTURE.

[Wallyandre (Andre)]

ANDRE, THIS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING I WOULD RATHER SEE GUYS GO OUT GET THERE 3 FISH LIMIT AND KEEP THEM AND THEN FISH SOMETHING ELSE. THAN GO OUT AND RELEASE 30 FISH AND NOT KEEP ANY THE LIMIT DOES NO GOOD IF YOU CATCH 30 FISH AND KILL 40 PERCENT OF THEM THATS 12 FISH WHEN YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED 3 THATS 4 TIME THE DAILY LIMIT. I SUSPECT DUE TO POOR HANDLING BY MANY ANGLERS THAT THE NUMBERS ARE MUCH HIGHER THAN 40 PERCENT. THE STATE HAS PUT OUT PROPER HANDLE GUIDELINES THAT CLEARLY STATE GRASP THE TAIL CRADLE THE BELLY DO NOT HOLD FISH VERTICALY AND RELEASE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. BUT I CONTINUALLY SEE FACE BOOK POST EVERYDAY OF PEOPLE WITH THERE HANDS IN THE GILLS HOLDING THEM STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN OR HANGING OFF A BOGA GRIP AND THEN HAVE THE BALLS TO SAY THEY RELEASED THEM TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY WHEN THEY SHOULD SAY RELEASED THEM TO DIE IN A FEW HOURS. I HAVE FISH IN THE DERBY EVRY YEAR THAT LIVE GREAT IN THE COOLER WITH ICE WATER BUT WE NEVER TOUCH THE GILL AREA AND WE NEVER TRY TO WEIGH THEM YEARS AGO WE WOULD TRY TO WEIGH THEM ON A BOGA OR HANGING SCALE THEY WOULD ALWAYS DIE WITHIN AN HOUR WE STOPPED THAT PRATICE MANY YEARS AGO. WE HAVE A GREAT FISHERY HERE ON LAKE CHAMPLAIN BUT IF PEOPLE DONT START HANDLING FISH BETTER WE WIL HAVE NOTHING IN THE FUTURE.

Exactly what I do with friends; catch a few then move on salmon

[Sleepswithdafishes]

Paul I have to say I think you are rite on the mark !!! It is just not substainable to catch 20 or thirty fish and release them and not kill 40 percent or more And still have a good fishery!!! Good luck trying to educate people to this !!! Sleeps

[ThreeBuoys]

I agree with this 100%

[MeanGreen]

So what does that say about all the charter guys who are jigging up 10-20 per day every day of the week? Seems they must be having a really negative impact on the overall fishery.

[keithm87]

As a fisherman who lands a lot of lakers, I have some issues with this thread. I respect everyone on this forum, and have learned a tremendous amount from you folks, but I have trouble believing that my weekend warrior one trip a week to champlain where I land 15-25 fish is as bad as it is being made to be. Not to say that the opinions are in any way wrong, just the presentation really comes across as attacking. As a person who posts frequently about my success with lakers (easy to catch I know) its frustrating to see so many posts about the damage it is doing, with limited proof.

In the short time (3 years) I have been fishing cold water, I have really worked to reduce impact on the fish I catch. My first year we kept limits every trip that we caught them, we released fish that would float for a few minutes before diving down, or disappearing from sight in the distance. I fish for sport not for food, I am out there chasing the elusive "big one" and you don't catch the big one without catching a lot of fish. In the last 2 years though I have really worked to preserve the future while enjoying the present. I only photo fish worthy of pictures these days (a persons first laker, fish over 10lb, oddities), making sure to hold them without touching gills and keeping them horizontal. The rest I try my best to keep in the water and release without touching them. We have instituted a rule where we count fish as caught if they get to the back of the boat as I intentionally give slack to fish that are small in an attempt to let them pop free on their own when they get to boat.

We are to a point where the only fish that enter the boat are either for lamprey removal, large fish that we weigh in the net and then subtract net weight, or fish that we for some reason can't boat-side release (like deeply hooked which are kept and given away, or unwilling to cooperate on the side of the boat). We never release a bleeding fish, as my buddies will eat fish. I think there are things that fisherman can do to reduce their impact. And I have trouble believing that 40% or more of the lakers I am catching are dying from their interaction with me. I think that the number of lamprey I remove (25-35% of fish) and dispatch saves as many fish as I may be killing by releasing them.

[Sleepswithdafishes]

Keith if more fisherman practiced releasing fish the way you do this wouldnt be a topic!!! But the truth is a lot dont!!! Sleeps

[Wallyandre (Andre)]

I, not always carry a cradle net so no handling; just keep the fish in the water, unhook and release!
I wish the company will create a small cradle net for the smaller fish ( not a problem this year has I don’t catch many salmon)

[tamiron]

I WOULD RATHER SEE GUYS GO OUT GET THERE 3 FISH LIMIT AND KEEP THEM AND THEN FISH SOMETHING ELSE. THAN GO OUT AND RELEASE 30 FISH AND NOT KEEP ANY THE LIMIT DOES NO GOOD IF YOU CATCH 30 FISH AND KILL 40 PERCENT OF THEM THATS 12 FISH WHEN YOU ARE ONLY ALLOWED 3 THATS 4 TIME THE DAILY LIMIT. I SUSPECT DUE TO POOR HANDLING BY MANY ANGLERS THAT THE NUMBERS ARE MUCH HIGHER THAN 40 PERCENT.

I have stated many times, in person, and on this forum that I am a meat fisherman who eats what he catches, and never fishes beyond the limit. This is for all species of game fish. I don't target what I don't plan on eating.

But I also happen to be one of those who really enjoys the fight from the warm water non-game fish giants that will put on a war compared to a lot of lesser size game fish and are much easier to hook.

I have perhaps a novel thought as a potential temporary solution. Why don't those who fish purely for sport and try carefully to release as many game fish as possible, play a little game of numbers.

Let's assume that there is a number or numbers that are scientifically true from reliable sources on mortality. than lets assume that they are inflated unintentionally ... but still inflated by say 20%.

In Capt. Paul's example above, the 40% would then be 33.3% (40% divided by 120%). Then if the limit is three to keep, catching and properly releasing 9 fish (per legal angler) would cause 3 to die ... SAME AS THE LIMIT = SELF-POLICING!!!! (then change to something entirely different).

DOES THIS SEEM REASONABLE?

[keithm87]

It's also worth noting that the above study is basing things on returned tags. I have always been a believer in the fool me once theory with fish, which is that a fish that has been caught on a hook, is in the future less likely to bite a hook. Not to say they don't, but I do feel that to some extent they learn just like anything else, and studies have shown that their memories are actually fairly good (mind you there are species that swim thousands of miles to return to the stream they were born in based solely on memory). So I don't find a fish not being re-caught on hook and line to be that surprising. Also it would seem that a fish caught in shallow cold water and brought in quickly would be potentially less traumatized than a fish brought up from the depths, and thus less afraid to be hooked again perhaps.

[Captain Paul]

As a fisherman who lands a lot of lakers, I have some issues with this thread. I respect everyone on this forum, and have learned a tremendous amount from you folks, but I have trouble believing that my weekend warrior one trip a week to champlain where I land 15-25 fish is as bad as it is being made to be. Not to say that the opinions are in any way wrong, just the presentation really comes across as attacking. As a person who posts frequently about my success with lakers (easy to catch I know) its frustrating to see so many posts about the damage it is doing, with limited proof.

In the short time (3 years) I have been fishing cold water, I have really worked to reduce impact on the fish I catch. My first year we kept limits every trip that we caught them, we released fish that would float for a few minutes before diving down, or disappearing from sight in the distance. I fish for sport not for food, I am out there chasing the elusive "big one" and you don't catch the big one without catching a lot of fish. In the last 2 years though I have really worked to preserve the future while enjoying the present. I only photo fish worthy of pictures these days (a persons first laker, fish over 10lb, oddities), making sure to hold them without touching gills and keeping them horizontal. The rest I try my best to keep in the water and release without touching them. We have instituted a rule where we count fish as caught if they get to the back of the boat as I intentionally give slack to fish that are small in an attempt to let them pop free on their own when they get to boat.

We are to a point where the only fish that enter the boat are either for lamprey removal, large fish that we weigh in the net and then subtract net weight, or fish that we for some reason can't boat-side release (like deeply hooked which are kept and given away, or unwilling to cooperate on the side of the boat). We never release a bleeding fish, as my buddies will eat fish. I think there are things that fisherman can do to reduce their impact. And I have trouble believing that 40% or more of the lakers I am catching are dying from their interaction with me. I think that the number of lamprey I remove (25-35% of fish) and dispatch saves as many fish as I may be killing by releasing them.

Keith if everyone handled fish like you I believe the mortality rate would be considerably lower than 40 percent and I know with proper handling they stand a very good chance of survival because we had a Lake Trout one summer that had very distinct markings on him that we caught 4 times about 7 to 10 days apart in late July and early August The fourth time we caught him he was hooked deep in the gills and we kept him and I have also caught lots of fish that have wounds from previous battles with fishermen. What I am saying is that people need to handle them better these Lake Trout take a long time to grow these fish that are 8 to 10 lbs. are 10 to 15 years old they grow slow but can live to be 30 years or older. People need to understand they will not take the abuse that warm water fish do and that warm water fish grow pretty fast compared to Lake Trout. Keith I think you do a great job handling the fish you catch and I believe you're mortality rate is much less than the guys that hold them wrong and take tons of pictures.

[Captain Paul]

So what does that say about all the charter guys who are jigging up 10-20 per day every day of the week? Seems they must be having a really negative impact on the overall fishery.

This post is not to target any one group of fishermen or how they fish or how much they fish it is to bring attention to the many angler that are mishandling fish in hope that they will change and protect the resource that we have.